Inside Landmark Forum (transcript)

BACK TO SET, PIECES A CONVICTION

HOST ELISE LUCET

You have surely gathered by now that we wanted to invite Alain Roth to the set.  Despite multiple phone calls and repeated faxes – and I have the latest one here – he refused to come on the set, and of course we’re sorry about that.  Let’s go back to Brigitte Thelier and Pierre who are, I remind you, former students of Landmark Education.  Since both of you attended your workshops, have you also asked yourself the question: cult or not a cult? – Pierre?  

PIERRE

Yes, because that’s what motivated me to register for The Forum.  When I first heard about Landmark, I had two close friends who were doing it.  And when we got together I asked questions.  It was never possible to get the least bit of information.  I only heard it’s “what happens”, it’s “what was said”, it’s “extraordinary.”  The responses, the vocabulary used was completely incomprehensible.  The questions were only a “racket”, a “winning formula”, etc.  When you don’t have the keys, you can’t detect it.  So when you ask for details, it wasn’t possible.  They told me, “Do it! You’ll see how good it is.”  

ELISE LUCET

So we’ve heard Pierre.  Brigitte, as far as you’re concerned, was it important for you to know whether Landmark Education is a cult?  

BRIGITTE THELIER

I would simply answer that, having lived through those three days, my experience tells me it is a cult.  It’s a cult because it’s a place where you’re treated like a puppet or marionette.  As soon as I’m treated like a puppet – like an object – I’m not myself anymore.  It means someone has power over me.  And in that case it’s a cult.

ELISE LUCET

On that note, Jean-Pierre Brard, you are deputy mayor of Montreuil.  You were vice-president of the investigating committee on cults in the Assembly.  As we heard, Landmark Education says that you classified them as a cult, without having investigated it.  What’s your response?

JEAN-PIERRE BRARD, DEPUTY MAYOR, MONTREUIL

I say that Ms. McLean must be Pinocchio's little sister and that, little by little as she's talking, her nose must be growing longer. Because, obviously, she's lying.

ELISE LUCET

But precisely what are the criteria that lead you to say it’s a cult?

JEAN-PIERRE BRARD

It's very simple. Clearly, there's a guru who destabilizes people to enslave them, to make them subservient, which has been said by witnesses. You can also see that they make you relinquish critical thought, and break the person down so that they can pick up the pieces. You can also see that there's a network of money. This hasn't been mentioned yet: The ultimate goal is to press its power and clean out the students' wallets. And by using the students, to attempt to earn more. So, there are the criterion of domination, a network of money, subordination and brainwashing. So it's a cult.

ELISE LUCET

But you know, for those watching, it’s far removed from the caricature they have of a cult.  It’s not The Mandarom Sect.  It’s far from The Order of the Solar Temple.  Why?

JEAN-PIERRE BRARD

It’s not that far.  You still have a group, you have a pyramid structure.  You still have jargon that separates you from your family and society.  And you still have the element of money from people that are victims.  

ELISE LUCET

Jean-Pierre Jougla?

JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA

What influences public opinion is only the storefront.  The cults you cited have a religious pretense, and hide behind that screen.  Here, there’s no religious element.  But there’s still a doctrine.  The basis of Landmark’s doctrine essentially rests on a philosophical concept.  It’s the concept of authenticity.  “We’re going to teach people to be authentic.”

ELISE LUCET

We’ll see that.

JEAN-PIERRE JOUGLA

So, we’ll get back to it.

ELISE LUCET

Now with these initial explanations, we return to our immersion back at The Forum.  Despite what we saw, no one objected.  Everyone decided to return.  But this time, the session begins with questions that are not necessarily welcomed, as you’ll see.